Ah, sorry, I misinterpreted it that we were using the “On the Agenda” term in English, now I see the discussion is between Sur l’Agenda and A l’Agenda. Both are fine with me, I can’t judge which one is better. I’m happy as long as it contains the word Agenda and is correct/common French. I’ll leave it to you
« Sur l’agenda » is indeed used also in French, but INSIDE a sentence. The numerous examples taken up by Lingee relate to this situation. BUT, when it is a single title, we use « A l’agenda ».
it is one of the many subtleties of the French language …
I’m not so sure there is any sort of absolute rule about when to use À vous Sur. My take of it was the distinction about the notion of conceptual planning (À l’agenda) vs something representing a physical agenda (Sur l’agenda) – and even here, you could interpret it either way…
And most of the times, the string is also within a sentence in the app too… I’ll take another look on OneSky to get a better feel of how to best address it.
In the localizations, the expression “On the agenda” comes 35 times. 27 times out of those, the string is within a sentence and 9 times, it comes up on its own or quoted within a string
In the 27 strings where it’s in a sentence, it’s not even systematically localized as Sur l’agenda (e.g.: supprimer de l’agenda, etc.).
Again, I’ll be happy to make changes, but I’m not convinced it’s needed or appropriate and I’d love others to add their grain of salt. I’ll go with the flow, but right now we’re 50/50
To give a additional perspective, in Dutch we went more the way that you kind of use in your first sentence:
In the localizations, the expression “On the agenda” comes 35 times.
you on purposely quote it there to refer to it as a single term. We do the same thing in Dutch, where in the sourcelist we use:
Op de agenda (On the Agenda)
but then within sentences we refer to it as:
Markeer notities als “op de agenda” (Mark Note as On the Agenda)
In English the camel casing helps to identify it as a term, but this indeed becomes more confusing in languages that do sentence casing like Dutch and French. Without the quotes a user might interpret “Mark note as on the agenda” as a way to mark a note without making the link to the overview item in the sourcelist. Using the quotes it becomes much more obvious that “On the Agenda” is some kind of term or thing, making the link with the sidebar overview much clearer IMO.
Update: Hooray, the French translation of Agenda is now available as part of Agenda version 10.0 . We’d invite everybody to give it a try and let us know if you find any aspects that can be improved, need to be corrected, or are giving issue. Join me in thanking all translators who worked so hard and with so much passion to add the French translation of Agenda!
Corentin, I don’t find the strings related to « Vue d’ensemble » in the Save or Delete Search . Here are some screen captures…
I get your point (and answered on OneSky). They’re not Saved Searches though. In English they are Overviews and Vue d’ensemble had been chosen as the translation for the term throughout the app. We could change it everywhere if we want to, but I wouldn’t use a translation for Saved Search since it’s a different concept (that doesn’t match the base string) altogether.
I don’t understand why insist on literally translating the term “overview” into French.
My reasoning is basic. When performing a search, which is called « Recherche" in the application (« Rechercher" or « Rechercher partout"), it is then possible to « Enregistrer » this search by pressing the button called well « Enregistrer ».
For any user, this is therefore a « Recherche enregistrée".
And if this user then wants to delete this saved search, it seems to me that the easiest way is to indicate « Supprimer la recherche enregistrée ». « Enregistrer la vue d’ensemble » and « supprimer la vue d’ensemble » doesn’t mean anything in this peculiar situation…
I really think it is important to put oneself in the place of the user who discovers the application, and to use natural language … ￼￼￼ in French, without being obsessed with the terms used in English. Otherwise it ends up looking like a bad Google machine translation…
My point of view…
EDIT : I have just seen that « Overview »(Vue d’ensemble) is in fact the main Title of the side bar!!!
« Chercher partout » and « Recherches enregistrées » are therefore below Overview and therefore certainly should not be translated into « Vue d’ensemble » …
Overviews are not just saved searches and include different views like On The Agenda, Today etc. The UI in English doesn’t use the term saved search and I really don’t think we can take the liberty of using it in French since it’s a slightly different concept. I don’t personally care how we call it in French as long as it’s not a term that represents something else. We had the same concern several months ago and chose this option to avoid confusions.
Do you have an alternate suggestion instead of saved search? There are a bunch of translations that can be used for an overview, but none of the alternatives seem right (either used for something else, like Aperçu, or not quite fitting like Panorama or Synthèse).
It is exactly what I have written : it is the main Title
Then I think that the UI in English is wrong
Why not?? Since in French we call it a « Recherche enregistrée » !
I’m sorry but this is a « Recherche enregistrée » I cannot invent words to try to say things that can be said with existing simple words of the French language…
Seriously, I am convinced that there is quite simply an error in onesky, it is not the good part of sentence in English …
It’s not an error in OneSky. It’s the translation we had agreed on in the forums (and I suspect I’m the one who typed them in). OneSky doesn’t offer machine translations, just translation memory.
And again, you can add to the overviews by saving search result as an overview, but overviews are not all search results and include built-in overviews as well.
I’m really sorry Corentin, but we’re going around in circles. I’m not sure I managed to express myself well. The current translation in « Vue d’ensemble" is not correct for the function behind this command. It’s a certainty.
But I think I have already spent more than an hour trying to explain it and I admit that it is starting to tire me.
Too bad if it stays as it is. It is not correct but too bad
Guys, sorry to interrupt, but I’m afraid Corentin is right, these are not saved searches, we on purposely call them overviews. Yes, you can create an overview from a search, i.e. you save a search as an overview (which is why the menu is called “Save Search as Overview” and not “Save Search”). But that doesn’t mean that we won’t add other ways to create overviews later, e.g. through a query builder ala the rule editor in Mail. This is why we specifically call them overviews. The exception is if you have many, we then create a subheader at the moment called “Saved Searches”, but this remains a subtype of Overview.
I think we don’t understand each other. It may be related to the fact that we exchange in English, which is not our mother tongue …
I am going to make one last attempt at explaining because I have a determined temperament, and because it is my job (I am a university professor at the faculty of computer science, in the field of "communication in the information technology - ICT ") ￼
I understand what the « Overview » (Vue d’ensemble) is in the app, no problem.
I’m not talking about the Overview.
I’m talking about « saved searches » (these are “saved search” : Recherches enregistrées), which clearly appear as such and well separated in the side bar if you look at the screenshots in the appendix.
The one and only problem so I speak from the start is in the menu that appears when you want to delete a “saved search”. For example if I want to delete the search saved with the #doc tag (see print screen), I receive in return the pop-up asking me if I want to delete the « overview » (Vue d’ensemble). While the "saved search » (Recherche enregistrée) for the #doc tag is not in the "overview » (Vue d’ensemble) but in the « saved searches » (Recherches enregistrées) …
So it’s not clear to the user at all. When he receives the pop-up asking if he wants to delete « the overview » (Vue d’ensemble), it is scary, because it gives the impression that the 4 elements that appear in the « overview » (Vue d’ensemble) could be deleted …
In my opinion, this message in the pop-up is not at all intuitive …
There is one Overview (Vue d’ensemble) Title in the singular and several Saved searches in the plural …
If you want to delete a saved search, it is surprising that the pop-up message asks if you want to delete « The overview » (La vue d’ensemble) …
I agree with @BenBelgium. It should be „Delete Saved Search „#doc“?“ (…).
For me the „Overview“ part in the left pane is more a collection of predefinded searches and saved searches - nothing else than e.g. show all which has the „tag“ (not a tag like a “#tag“) „On the Agenda“ or with the date today. Or those which are moved to the trash. All these „searches“ are places in the „Overview” (which we also could call the Main Category).
The saved search „#doc“ is a part of the „Overview“ (similar to a project inside a category). If I want to delete (or create) a saved search it is not correct to call it „Overview“, it is a Saved Search placed in „Overview“.
The same if I would delete the project „Project x" inside the category „Category Y". I get the message „Do you really want to delete the project „Project x“?“ and not „Do you want to delete the category „Project x?“.
Greetings from the “German Translation” department of Agenda!